Volkswagen Golf Turbo-Diesel Hybrid Too Expensive for Production
by Michael Graham Richard, Gatineau, Canada on 04.25.08
Volkswagen Golf Turbo-Diesel Hybrid too Expensive to Make
Volkswagen introduced a turbo-diesel hybrid-electric Golf concept car at the Geneva Motor Show, and the specs were impressive: 70 miles per gallon (3.3 liters per 100 kilometers), a 7-speed direct shift gearbox (DSG) with a twin-clutch, minor modifications to reduce aerodynamic drag, CO2 emissions of 89 g/km (lower than a Toyota Prius hybrid), and Tier 2 Bin 5 tailpipe emissions. And of course, the ability to run on biodiesel (waste cooking oil or algae, preferably).
But it was too good to be true. VW contradicted its earlier statement in the March 27 issue of Auto, Motor und Sport and said that the Golf turbo-diesel hybrid would be too expensive, so they're not going to make it (not as specified above, anyway). It's stillborn, in other words.
What Will Replace the Golf Turbo-Diesel Hybrid
According to the German magazine, the VW Golf hybrid will most likely use a 1.4 liter TSI gasoline engine instead of a diesel one. By combining a supercharger and a turbocharger, the 'twincharged' TSI engine can be downsized and still produce as much power as a bigger displacement engine while using less fuel, so it is a good candidate for coupling with a hybrid drivetrain.
But it still probably won't reach the fuel economy achieved by the turbo-diesel hybrid Golf concept. According to Green Car Congress, the 1.4 TSI engine in the Golf gets 32.7 MPG (US Gallons), which isn't that great for such a small car. Further downsizing would certainly give better results (the 1.4 liter TSI produces 168-horsepower, so a 1.2 or 1.1 liter model would still have decent power).
Volkswagen's Fuel Efficiency Strategy
While waiting for the hybrid to come out, VW said that it would rely on more downsizing and use of the anti-idling stop/start technology (which shuts down the engine when the car comes to a stop, reducing wasted fuel) to meet its fuel efficiency targets.
R.I.P. Golf Turbo-Diesel Hybrid. We hardly knew ya.
Diesel Hybrids
::Volkswagen to Introduce 70 mpg Diesel-Electric Hybrid Golf
::More Details: Volkswagen Turbo Diesel-Electric Hybrid Golf
::Diesel-Hybrid Pickup Coming to U.S.
::Citroën’s C-Métisse Diesel Hybrid Sports Car
Gasoline Hybrids
::2006 Prius Pricing and Options Announced
::Green Basics: Hybrid-Electric Cars
::China's New Hybrid Cars: Almost Affordable in China
Plug-in Hybrids
::MIRA 'Plugless' Plug-In Hybrid Car Has Removable Battery Packs
::BYD F6DM: Will the First Plug-In Hybrid be Chinese?
::F3DM: The Second, Smaller, Plug-in Hybrid by China's BYD
More on Death of Volkwagen Diesel Hybrid
::VW Diesel Hybrid Kaput; Golf VI Details Revealed
::VW Golf TDI Hybrid probably dead in the water
Nooooooooooo!
I doubt it was too expensive to make, its prolly to expensive for BIG OIL. greedy oil barrons....
Put away the tin foil hat, ANON. $5000 premium for the diesel and $5000+ premium for the hybrid system means it would be too expensive. A few people might be willing to buy it but not enough to make it profitable for VW.
Son of a bitch. I really wanted one of those, too!
Please contact Volkswagen customer service and voice your opinion on this model to them directly! I just sent them a message myself voicing my dissatisfaction!
http://www.vw.com/customerservice/contactus/en/us/#
First off, diesel at a $5000 premium is a North American rip off issue. Diesels are common in Europe therefore we need to address this obvious price disparity.
Second the hybrid system is less than $3000 and is almost always offset by tax breaks, I honestly have no clue where you pulled the $5000+ for the hybrid system. I'm guessing that a magical wizard appeared to tell you... stop believing the drunken wizard who is quick with numbers.
Third, with gas prices at $120 the more your car uses the better off the 5 major oil companies are. No tin foil hat is involved in this just simple corporate greed. Why do you think Canada's oil sands were being developed at break neck speed. Even Albertans were saying that the pace should be slowed for the purposes of exploiting the resource when royalties would be greater from higher prices.
Simple economics for the oil companies minimize costs while maximizing profits. Too many fuel efficient cars are bad for business.
:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(
I was planning on trading my car in for one of those when it came here...Can't any company out there create a good car with good gas mileage? I know it's possible!!!!
This definitely sucks.
Relax, it'll all be here before you know it. There's no stopping PHEVs and BEVs. I think this is why VW backed off on this. Also, 70MPG for all that extra nonsense when the current TDI's already get 50MPG? As much as I loved the idea of this car, I knew those numbers would not make it viable.
Willy, I certainly hope you're right.
But perosnally, I think the hybrid was worth it. 20 more miles per gallons is nothing to sneeze at. That's all that most vehicles get, actually!
And it would have made it better in the city, where I do most of my driving, and would have reduced emissions.
Ha! that's why we decide to not wait anymore and we are building our own electric Golf.
www.miamiEVproject.com
I can't believe this. This was the first car I've been excited about buying in years. I'm so dissapointed and sad. I love Volkswagen and thought this was a dream come true. VW and a Hybrid, how awesome. Now gone. THIS SUCKS.
saintchuck is right. The economics for this product are not favorable. Clean diesel engine plus DSG plus hybird system would make for one hell of an expensive compact.
In the US, the price of fuel just isn't yet high enough offset the additional cost in a reasonable amount of time (important to most buyers), especially with diesel selling higher than gasoline, and neither VW nor diesels being all that popular here.
In Europe where VW's and diesels are fairly common and fuel is much more expensive, Europeans also have more options to choose from. Why buy a Golf TDI hybrid when you could buy a standard Polo TDI with nearly the same efficiency for half the price?
Concepts are shown to gauge pulbic interest in a product or feature. They would have needed a strong emotional response to outweigh the cost to have any reasonable expectation of success. I assume they did not get as much as they needed.
Darn it all, I was really excited about that car. We have a TDI Bug already, I was really hoping to get the TDI hybrid when it came out.
I DID THE SAME.
You have to click on the VW info center email link.
The other is for VW owners.
Please contact Volkswagen customer service and voice your opinion on this model to them directly! I just sent them a message myself voicing my dissatisfaction!
http://www.vw.com/customerservice/contactus/en/us/#
Alisa, Scott, Nikita, Nerdsavant, et. al.,
How much would you be willing to pay for this vehicle? $30,000? $35,000? $40,000? $45,000?
Hybrids tend to be offered first on higher contented (loaded) models. It reduces the proportional increase in the price and increases the profit margin of the vehicle. Jettas (the more likely US model to receive the system) already approach $35,000 fully loaded. The cost of this system could be $10,000 above that. Would you pay $45,000 for a Jetta?
If they can make a Prius in the 20-30k range, they could make a Golf diesel hybrid in the 25-35k range, which is a price range that sells lots and lots of volume.
ANON,
Where are you getting $45,000 for a Jetta?!? A 2005 Jetta TDI was about $23,000. So add $3000 more for a hybrid, and take $2000 tax credit. $24,000 for a nice Jetta that gets 70mpg!!! Sign me up. Even without the tax credit you're only talking $26,000.
Please. The current Polo Diesel gives you 70mpg. Please google vW Polo Diesel, click on specs and see for yourselves.
Forget about gas/diesel. Electric!!!
I love my diesel bug. However...with more bonehead decisions like this my next car might be a Honda. Honda is now far and away the most eco-minded car company.
Diesel sounds good but recent papers show that Nox emission is much worse than co2 emission in its impact on global warming. These diesel cars barely pass the nox emission standards. What's is their true worth for the environment, I wonder?
Diesel sounds good but recent papers show that Nox emission is much worse than co2 emission in its impact on global warming. These diesel cars barely pass the nox emission standards. What's is their true worth for the environment, I wonder?
The US car market is stupid ... people care more about the CHPP (that would be cup holders per person) than the MPG. In the UK, I can get a Polo 3/5 Door 1.4 TDI (with A/C) with DPF BLUEMOTION and it gets over 70mpg according to official government stats. You can view the stats and the sheer number of vehicles that get these levels of fuel efficiency at VCA Car Fuel Data.
The problem with the ICE engine is that no matter what you do, it wastes all of its energy as heat and it is horribly complicated. The only way to make it more efficient is to ad complexity which drives up cost and maintenance and hurts reliability.
The “Diesel Works in Europe” argument is bogus. The reason it works is because there diesel emission standards are ridiculously lenient. Diesel is dirty fuel and in order to clean up that tailpipe, the emission systems are complex and expensive. That is why VW is not selling the normal Jetta TDI in the US since 2006. To hybridize this monstrosity, is asinine.
People need to think of simple ways to transport themselves that and that is walking, transit, bicycle. If you need to transport yourself in thousands of pounds worth of steel, then lets look to BEVs and REEVs, not diesel, not biofuels.
"Where are you getting $45,000 for a Jetta?!? A 2005 Jetta TDI was about $23,000."
The 2005 TDI does not meet current emission standards. The clean diesel system will be required for that, which has not been officially priced is likely to be higher than the 2005. Manufacturers also tend to introduce hybrids on "loaded" models. Without a base price for a TDI to start with, I priced a gasoline Jetta online. It didn't take many options to push it close to $35,000 (that's without TDI, DSG, or hybrid system). If saintchuck is right that the cost of the diesel-hybrid could add $10,000, you'd end up with a $45,000 Jetta.
Of course it could be lower. If you notice, I suggested prices as low as $30,000. The point was that several people have already indicated that they were ready to purchase a VW diesel-hybrid, which I thought was rediculous considering that they had no idea what the price would be. Odds are, once the price was announced, many would decide to keep driving their 2005 TDI.
go ride a bike
From the people that apparently invented common rail diesel tech, Fiat has now launched a new technology called MultiAir, which beefs up a 2-cylinder petrol engine to provide enough power for a small car, but with 69g CO2/km. At the moment, the best small diesel cars are up around 100-120g/km, so this looks set to deliver some real efficiency savings. just google 'fiat+multiair'.
Booo Hoooo, too expensive. What a bunch of crap. Which VW isn't too expensive? Oh well, it was just too expensive to change our self-destructive ways. Better to die with lots of toys, right?
Well, the Hummers weren't cheap, but they made a fortune. I think the issue is that Treehuggers are too poor, or more like ly, too cheap. Just like all the posts about solar panels "I'll 'go green' when it's cheaper." Mal-Mart has a credit card with your name on it waiting at the checkout line.